Live Traffic Feed

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap32%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 32% 
[ 10 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap23%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 23% 
[ 7 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap13%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 13% 
[ 4 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap23%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 23% 
[ 7 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap0%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 0% 
[ 0 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap3%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 3% 
[ 1 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap6%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 6% 
[ 2 ]
How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_lcap0%How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Vote_rcap 0% 
[ 0 ]
 
Total Votes : 31

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Empty Re: How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Post  neutralrobotboy on Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:28 pm

He died alone, friendless, having never grown out of childish narcissism and rebelliousness. IMO, he may have been an accomplished magus (+etc), but he wasn't a very good man. I'd say he could've greatly benefited from some psychotherapy... someone to call him on his bullshit. Sadly, given his demeanor, he'd probably ignore them and keep doing whatever he wanted...

It seems he was at least aware of Freud by the time Book 4 was written, as he refers to him repeatedly in it. Crowley probably was called on his bullshit by people who soon thereafter stopped being his friend. It's anyone's guess, though, how much "being an asshole" was needed at that time to get things done. It's not that I disagree with the first couple of sentences there exactly, but rather, I wonder whether he had to be what he was in order to do what he did.

neutralrobotboy

Age : 38
Number of posts : 255
Registration date : 2008-12-23

http://www.namelessnumberhead.com

Back to top Go down

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Empty Re: How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Post  Khephra on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:22 pm

neutralrobotboy wrote:It's not that I disagree with the first couple of sentences there exactly, but rather, I wonder whether he had to be what he was in order to do what he did.
He had many suitable peers, so how much more could he have been if he weren't so competent in pushing people away? Perhaps he was completely incapable of creating authentic, nurturing relationships?

_________________
"Sacred Activism is the fusion of the mystic's passion for God with the activist's passion for justice, creating a third fire, which is the burning sacred heart that longs to help, preserve, and nurture every living thing." - Andrew Harvey
Khephra
Khephra

Age : 54
Number of posts : 897
Registration date : 2008-08-10

Back to top Go down

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Empty Re: How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Post  ezavan on Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:46 pm

crowley's biography is rife with misogyny, racism, megalomania, and elitism - not very attractive traits, but all accepted within the society he developed. which makes him a perfect example of how a wholesome moralistically-oriented psychology is not necessarily relevant. as a magician crowley's a bit of a hero, and his power/charisma are undeniable (although i've never practiced the crowleyan perspective, considering the techniques and teachings of his peer austin osman spare resonate more harmoniously with me)(actualloy, AOS is another example of a deeply psychologically flawed individual with incredible magical potency ( it's generally accepted that he was autistic)). so what gives? how can such an incomplete and infantile man also be a competent and even exemplary magician? the answer is simple enough, in that the true will and magical self, as i said earlier, are seperate beings from the ego, which we require to navigate this reality and occupy this body. crowley channeled important communication from a deeper self, knowingly not only summoned but offered himself for possession to the abyss of the demon choronzon, collected disciples like trading cards (and still does, notice the attention we're giving him here), established (probably) more than one system of magical practice (evidence points to a strong likelihood that initiation rituals in gardnerian wicca were penned by crowley), and helped to usher in a new age of mystical resurgence in western civilization. as a man his flaws are glaring and unavoidable, but they didn't stand in the way of his attainment.

your mind and ego, your psychic censor; these are stumbling blocks to the true will's manifestation - ANY sufficiently evolved technique to shut them down can ensure success in magical endeavors. some would argue that a balanced ego is easier to subdue, but i disagree. honestly, the times when it was easiest to tear down the monster of ego for me personally were when it was completely panicked and delusional (hysterical fear, disorienting ecstasy, sensory overload, personal anxiety) because the intensity of emotion completely absorbed the attention of my "thinking mind" and thus, when the emotion was dispelled, my mind went with it. this is not to say that the transcendent calming and silencing of an untroubled mind hasn't been an effective technique as well, only illustrating that this is not the ONLY effective technique. a complete and balanced psychocosm, i think, is only magically important at the moment of dying, because it's easier to shed an ego that doesn't have bulky complexes or glaring inadequacies weighing on your karma. but does psychotherapy even assist in acquiring this balance? so much of psychological "health" is dependant on totally subjective social norms. the problems of misogyny, racism, etc. were acceptable and even encouraged to preserve the status quo during crowley's life. i would go so far as to say it would be infinitely more useful not to participate in psychotherapy, but to analyze methodology and end-goals of psychotherapy looking for socialized prejudice and oppressive control-mechanisms as a means of further liberating yourself from the timid human awareness that keeps you locked into a mundane understanding of experience and alienated from the singularity, the little god at your core.

as far as regardie is concerned - although i disagree that psychotherapy is necessary or even involved in magical power, i DO agree that it's helpful in an "order" or "guild" type setting. it's important for magicians, when working together, to be able to understand each other and all motives involved in a given work. group and solo work are different. with hermetic magic (or magic that only involves one participant) the practice relies only on the mental construct of one individual being, making it more subjective and less dangerous to the aspirant. group working should not be performed with or in the presence of someone incapable of psychologically processing what's happening - their unpreparedness can either sap energy from the magical act rendering it ineffective or create unpredictable complexes and responses within them which may be as severe as clinical madness. in this way i completely agree with neutralrobotboy's statement that:
(psychotherapy) becomes relevant to esoteric practice when our personalities are in such conflict that we cannot even work together magickally
further, i would say that in this light, esoteric or magical self-development and self-help are processes important to negotiate within the context of your own paradigm and most effective when worked either alone or with 1-2 trusted and proven comrades; also, i again assert that endeavoring towards the goal of self-amelioration magically can be more helpful than consulting a thousand licensed and competent therapists.
ezavan
ezavan

Age : 32
Location : pittsburgh
Number of posts : 112
Registration date : 2009-06-08

Back to top Go down

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Empty Re: How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Post  ankh_f_n_khonsu on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:12 am

ezavan wrote:crowley's biography is rife with misogyny, racism, megalomania, and elitism - not very attractive traits, but all accepted within the society he developed. which makes him a perfect example of how a wholesome moralistically-oriented psychology is not necessarily relevant.

To be clear, I'd rather not try and defend a "wholesome moralistically-oriented psychology". It's just too ambiguous and loaded with hypocrisy. But you're right to point out that personal integrity isn't necessarily a prerequisite of power or influence.

as a man [Crowley's] flaws are glaring and unavoidable, but they didn't stand in the way of his attainment.
Didn't they, though? How responsible was he with money? How did that affect his publishing schemes? He repulsed almost every single person who ever tried to befriend him.

In my experience, my "flaws" have limited or impacted my attainment, and I have a difficult time imagining why Crowley should have been any different.

as far as regardie is concerned - although i disagree that psychotherapy is necessary or even involved in magical power, i DO agree that it's helpful in an "order" or "guild" type setting.

Did Regardie make the claim that psychotherapy was necessary for magickal power? As I understand his council, he said that psychotherapy helps integrate the fragmented, which helps us use magick more effectively - with wisdom and balance.

On the other hand, Regardie had his own slew of "flaws"... and we could probably have just as much fun putting him under the microscope... Wink
ankh_f_n_khonsu
ankh_f_n_khonsu

Number of posts : 545
Registration date : 2008-09-15

Back to top Go down

How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice? - Page 2 Empty Re: How relevant is 'psychotherapy' to magickal/esoteric practice?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum