"Pharmacology: Authentic Path or Delusion?"

As one who considers himself a shaman I'd like to make a few comments on this matter. It really comes down to purpose of use and willpower. When the choice about whether or to use drugs, and indeed the power of choice itself over any matter, is taken from an individual then that individual becomes a slave. This is undoubtedly an extreme exaggeration but it is true nonetheless. Where one is to function in society a certain amount of acquiescence to the Law of civilization in whatever its current form is necessary. Without going into the politics of our current situation over the matter it may simply be left that there are times when an individual oversteps his rights to freedoms and the government oversteps their rights to determine those freedoms. It more or less just comes down to reasonability but in essence what I am trying to say here is that one cannot become a 'Slave to the Needle' any more than one can become a 'Slave to the Machine' (without going into the hypothetical of AI anyway). An individual may however be a slave to himself or another human.
In essence, when one has resigned his ability to choose to or not to do a drug then he is a slave to someone. The only way to KNOW one possesses this intangible commodity we call freedom is to exercise it.
Just as I assert that I am free to make my own choices by using a particular mind altering substance I must also, to be free, exercise that same ability to choose to not use at some particular point.
The delusion of the drug culture that destroys all concepts of freedom is the isolation outside the fourth dimension (Time). To say "I must stop using completely to be free from that drug." Is the most inane thing I have ever heard. It implies that one was once a slave to an object. When the truth of addiction is that its true form is just repression and unconscious behavior patterns. Without reforming the unconscious programming of our mind we will still be slaves to our hidden self without understanding the truth of our slavery.
In thus, one must allow oneself the freedom to use again if one can reasonably make the choice to use again but in that selfsame substatiation of freedom choose to abstain for this moment and this moment ONLY then the power is had.
The truth is that Drugs have been blamed and demonized for all sorts of evil that can never be attributed to an object. These things are truly the actions of man. A persons integrity and power is measured by his ability to be honest and conduct real and meaningful interactions with other people.
A lie is a lie by any name and it is not a substantial or measurable thing in any now that is not retrospective. It is an action not conducted when but over time. Honesty is a fourth dimensional aspect of ones existence that cannot truly be determined at the point of statement but only when the persons whole existence is measured.
Addiction is not a thing limited to chemistry but can take many forms and habits. One can be addicted to the internet (Yours truly ) or to theft (i.e. Kleptomania) or any Obsessive compulsion. Such things have always been indicative of a repressed complex or unconscious program of habitual behavior.
You can't declare war on an object. You cannot be addicted to an object. These are the widely held lies created by the propaganda of those who would enslave us. The truth is self-realization and personal Alchemy is the solution. The truth is simply that we repeat behavior. And even of those who do so it is truly not our place to ever judge that individual for we cannot save one from oneself. We may only stop one from repeating sadistic (Intentional or otherwise) behavior.

My opinion, in simple terms: It appears to me (from observation of others) that entheogens can quite often open up modes of perception for many, and that these modes of perception can be useful for personal growth. That said, I do not believe there is any substitute for personal effort. If "spiritual thought" becomes something that only happens through the drug experience, it seems to me that this dependency will ultimately do more harm than good.
My thoughts only, your mileage may vary.

My vote went to the strongest yea available -- "Entheogens provide an authentic path of spiritual development" -- but I'd reformulate the sentence, for its key terms prematurely limit the subject matter. "Path" is a spatial analogy, and "development" is an educational, maturational, or gestational concept. To insist on these models is to write off a whole class of phenomena that deserves inclusion in any anthropology of consciousness.

Not everyone is inclined to take up an imaginal yoga, but even the non-religious (Wittgenstein, for example) will report events that have all the marks of a bona fide religious experience. I would call these "point events" -- singularly profound events in one's psychic life that are free of any doctrinal content yet are so disturbing that it takes years, if not a lifetime, to come to terms with them. Aldous Huxley attests to this in his psychedelic writings. He took entheogens only a handful of times in his life and felt that was sufficient.

To insist on these point events in terms of spatial or educational analogies is to miss the point (no pun intended). Point events, including those arising from the more powerful entheogens, are independent of doctrines of "path" and " development". Moreover, point events have such a rich content that there is no need to supplement the analysis with language of becoming or initiation or any of the other spatial or educational analogies on offer.

exib wrote:Point events, including those arising from the more powerful entheogens, are independent of doctrines of "path" and " development". Moreover, point events have such a rich content that there is no need to supplement the analysis with language of becoming or initiation or any of the other spatial or educational analogies on offer.

Yes, I think you're onto something here.

If "spiritual thought" becomes something that only happens through the drug experience, it seems to me that this dependency will ultimately do more harm than good.

People keep saying this in the occult world. I've even regurgitated my own version before. When I come to think about it now I balk at it.

If dependancy inhibits spiritual (Whateverthefuwanttocallitbutforthesakeofargumentwe'llmetaphoricallyuse PATH) then that's one thing.

But if you can't have spiritual or magickal development without drugs...then what is wrong with spiritual development if drug are what that hinge on so be it.

I don't know. I'm a toker to help me with social function with Asperger's Syndrome and Manic Depression. I've tried everything in the book. Sometimes I do better without it. Sometimes I'm so crippled the only thing that fixes it is marijuana. It's not a temporary fix either. Sometimes (And for seemingly no reason other than some natural energy flux) I get so insanely energetic I can't move and I shake like a madman and violence rages across my mind like a primitive warrior preparing for battle. One puff of weed...and I'm cool again. Depression isn't even a problem for me. I had a bout with it some time ago for a few days and kciked it to the curb without even thinking about weed.

Marijuana is essential to my develoment in so many aspects.

I feel like a black man in the 50's. I feel like I'm ready to just lash out at anyone for criticizing what I do. Not because I'm insecure about it. Because I'm sick of people judging it. I'm sick of prohibition. It's like racism and it is a form of slavery. I feel for my bretheren incarcerated for no crime other than peaceful usage. And it's nobody's business but our own.

And now they want to threaten me over my Goddess Sally? I could justify murder. If it were an individual or small group and not a millitant force of popular consent (If not approval) I wouldn't be concerned and ignore such an ignorant hate faction in kind. But it's both.

I've never bee in any legal trouble over it and not because I'm clever though I have learned to be.

It's the threat. The threat that if I declare and be who I am then I will be incarcerated. They did that to me as a child and I was in and out of psych wards. I understand that and what happened. There was a point when they were just feeding their pocket books off my parents insurance I had to break out though (Not literally, I convinced my parents to sign me out AMA and things were well).

And I feel like that is where we are at with prohibition now.

Like a bubble ready to pop. There is gonna be a lot of hate going around to make the change. I for one have no qualms about digging something up from deep places to make it happen.

I've just needed to vent for a while and your post was good a hinge as any to fly off of. Nothing personal.

Chakravanti: Naah, not taken personally at all. Actually, I think that making drugs illegal has been a disasterous and thoroughly insane policy. So we seem to be basically on the same side of the prohibition issue.

If dependancy inhibits spiritual (Whateverthefuwanttocallitbutforthesakeofargumentwe'llmetaphoricallyuse PATH) then that's one thing.

But if you can't have spiritual or magickal development without drugs...then what is wrong with spiritual development if drug are what that hinge on so be it.

I basically agree with you, I think. But I've seen people who have used drugs as a way of getting spiritual experiences without applying themselves in any way, and it usually degenerates into simple escapism, occasionally into impaired mental functioning, and seemingly always leaves the host personality without its own independant strength to draw from. Again, this is just what I've seen in others who have gone that way. And I don't think badly of them for it, it just seems like it hasn't worked out so well for them.

So, that was where I was coming from. In any case, I made a general statement: Exceptions are almost certain to be found. Also, I wasn't speaking in a very precise way. Your added clause was probably warranted. But I hope it's crystal clear that in no case was I making some sort of moralistic judgement call about people who use entheogens.

I've seen people who have used drugs as a way of getting spiritual experiences without applying themselves in any way, and it usually degenerates into simple escapism,

That's exactly what it was to begin with. When I smoke weed too much it turns into escapism real fast. I won't deny it. Finding that balance of enhancement over hedonism is what every aspect of Magick is really about anyway. Drugs are no exception. They simpy have a more nuetral physical manifestation that's markable. As such people personify the drug and demonize it. Kind of like an immature will worker attempting to banish demons without understand what they are, where they come from, why they are there, and almost purely out of fear. Puritans.

Of course, that's what dialogue is about. Finding a more creative and accurate description of what we desire to express.

nice, friendly up !!

I have experimented meditating with marijuana and its given me great results. I usually like meditating while under the influence of it and its heelped me reach amazing breakthroughs. On the downside, its very hard to remember after, its a great meditation but when its over I remember it in pieces, I do remember it, but in a scattered fashion. But Ive also meditated with Lysergic acid diethylamide, and ive gotta tell you all, ive never tried anything like it. Its amazing, Ive literally gotten heavy visions, OBEs and reached other dimensions and microcosms. On the downside, its very hard to get the hang of because of its effects, but when you master it you can reach many levels above the levels you thought you knew existed. Although this is just my experience up until this point. Ive still to try shrooms or ayahuasca, but someday...

I like whoever said "Drugs are a window, not a door." They can show you what's out there, but they can't take you there. Of course, that's a blanket statement, but I think it's generally true. Drugs are really only useful in conjunction with other practices, but they can provide shortcuts, and they can give you hints when you're stuck in a rut.

They can sometimes be the spark that kindles an interest in spiritual or mental development. I've actually had profound experiences while on DXM, although I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, especially someone who isn't experienced with chemicals. Even people who just use it to get high tend to find its effects overpowering.