Modern Magick - DMK - Help

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Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:35 am

Friends,

I'm following the book Modern Magick by Donald M. Kraig and I arrived at the "Self Dedication".
And this part says I need to have an altar as described in the book to continue the ritual and move to the part of Grey Magick.
This is even necessary? Can I make a miniature altar or shorter than 18 "x 36"? Or do somehow folding or removable?
Does the "Weapons" can also be miniaturized so that they occupy little space and are easy to hide them?
I'm almost nine months practicing the basic rituals of "White Magick" (LBRP, BRH, MP, CBL, Tarot Contemplation and R+C sometimes) every day and know I need to continue leaving the basics!
can anyone help me?

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i am too following modern magick and am about same in as you

Post  Nicky Lubu on Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:35 am

which ritual are you up to?
heres what you can do, it took me a little while of searching and planning but this is what ive done
i have a tv holder that i havent used in about a year, i just dusted it off bought table cloth and am using that as an altar, but an altar can be anything that you can kneel before and place your magickal items upon, i am still in need of space because ive been reading other books as modern magick says to do but i havent read the listed books but anyways to make the wands find a fallen branch on the ground, boil it, shave it down, sand it and prime it then you can spray paint or paint it i did both and finally inscribe. For the air athame get a knife and add on to the handle as shown in the textbook and prime, paint it and inscribe. for the chalice i bout a cup at the dollar store and went to an art supply store to buy waterproofing, glass primer and paint and inscribed onto the cup, for the pentagram i used a 7'' wooden disc and used my wood burner/ soldering iron to etch the design of a pentagram into it, for the elemental tablets use scissors and construction paper and finally the tablet of union use permenant marker a ruler and a piece of copy paper thats everything i did you just have to be creative, these are your unique tools make them as good as you want them i would say the wands are the hardest because i used a whole wood carving set to etch the design into the wands. anyways good to meet someone who is following the same order as i am. oh! and also for the robe i havent gotten one yet but you can buy a monk robe at a party supply store or halloween costume store or simply make your own with cloth and a sewing machine.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:45 pm

Hello Frater Nicky Lubu!

Sorry about the delay in responding! thank you for your tips were very helpful! Glad to find someone in the same way, wish you success in your practices!
As I said I'm in the ritual of self-dedication to go into what the author calls "grey magick".
What I really want to know is if I can make an altar smaller than described in the book, because I have little space. I thought about doing something collapsible or foldable, so I could store it under the bed or behind the wardrobe.
Has anyone done something similar?

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  amandachen on Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:42 pm

cratos wrote:Hello Frater Nicky Lubu!
What I really want to know is if I can make an altar smaller than described in the book, because I have little space.
It's really not important. Don't worry about that sort of thing, ok?
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:33 pm

Hello dear Amandachen

What exactly do you mean? I do not need no altar? what do you think?
I've been doing rituals without any weapon, just drawing with your finger in the air, pentagrams, hexagrams, etc. ..
Do not really like the idea of putting my faith or energy in any object.
What do you think Amandachen this way can also work well?

And this thing of self-dedication is needed or can I skip this part? I do not want to vow that I will always be nice, everybody are bad sometimes and I want the right of be bad sometimes! and do not want an agreement against myself!

Thanks for helping!

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  amandachen on Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:16 pm

It's fine to improvise things. Magic(k) actually starts happening on the level of the mind and the imagination.

I mean, look at all the different rituals from all over the world that are supposed to accomplish the precise same thing. Physically they differ. All those rituals are similar only on the level of intention, will, etc. A good example, perhaps, is the use of hand Mudras in the various Asian traditions, say Buddhism. Here, a hand form, a gesture, is used to symbolize an object.

In your post, you say you don't like the idea of putting your energy into an object or rite. I think what you are saying is that you want to dress up and play at being a magician, without having to actually believe in magic(k). That's why physical ritual implements are important (or vows, or building up strong Will) - you have to make a ritual (and your magical practice) "real" and "vital" and important in some way.

So find some way to make it "real" for you.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  jboadas on Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:39 pm

I have this shortcomming too with this book, I take Magic(k) very seriously but around me are a lot of scaries ppl, Im going to make a cards with the weapons on it and use it in my rituals by the way the elemental forces on these rituals are very strong when I was learning the Great Invocation of the Pentagram my days was too, too weird and have to change it (for learning) to Great banishing of the Pentagram to keep my sanity, now Im triyng to make a subjetive syntesis of the learnings until now (Explained by Joseph Lisiewsky on his Kabbalistic Handbook) to make the rituals strong. These riruals are very powerfull and the astral elementary forces involved are used with weapons and altar or without it, also recomend you get a copy of David Griffing's Book (Ritual Magic Manual), for better ritual performance also take a look on the book of Donald Tyson - Portable Magic Tarot and see that there is no need of altar and weapons.
If you ask me today I respond to you that there is no need of altar and weapons for magic(k) to do the job, and without results there is not magic(k), and think about it you are looking for ceremonialism or for results.
In other hands the self-dedication ritual described on Kraig book is some kind of initiation and this topic of an initiation are diverged by others authors, for example Lisiewsky tells that the initiation must be done by the Holy Guardian Angel.

Maybe advanced Magus can make this topic clear.
Best regards

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:45 pm

Dear Amandachen,

Thank you for your reply, helped a lot! I think when we are starting this universe of magic, we tend to think have to do everything exactly as it is in "script" as a cake recipe!

I see that was very important your opinion! and now know that I can add my knowledge to my rituals to become more personal.

When I mentioned that I don't like the idea of putting my faith (or energy) on an object, was in sense of not wanting to be dependent on it.

For example: I am without my wand, and now? I cannot do my ritual? or in my mind, I cannot get it at the same intensity without the ritual objects! ie, trying not to create dependency, for when I need, could rely on my willpower and my hands, power of concentration / visualization! etc..

So far I have done the rituals, LBRP, BRH, Middle Pillar, CBL (circulation of the body of light) and advanced Tarot Comtemplation, without any tools or special clothing until now, sometimes without any clothes and with bare feet on the ground (it's good). I could be wrong or seem profane to some purists, I don't know!

But if is necessary to use weapons, I'll use, I'm not closed to other possibilities! whatever it takes to do serious and correct work.

I have also read Practical Sigil Magic by Frater U.D. and I like the way he writes and says that things about will and ecstasy and trance, it makes me better understand the energy / fuel that drives the magic.

I'm also reading CHAOTOPIA by Dave Lee and I like it, is more material for me to mix in my cauldron.Smile

I'm trying to get the books, High Magic I and II of Frater U.D. and if someone wants to share! helping to fill my cauldron of ideas, I am grateful! Smile

Amandachen, thank you again for your valuable tips!

PS: I do not know why you are in a hospital but I wish that you recover your health much faster than any doctor could believe it! HEALTH!

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:01 pm

Thank jboadas,

I take note of those books you mentioned.
Thank you for sharing a little of your experience!
I will continue with the practices and see how it goes. And put everything else that has to do with my universe!

many thanks!

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Nicky Lubu on Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:20 pm

i feel protected with my altar and tools, in fact i feel more comfortable and more powerful and i can feel the presence in the room where the altar is, it is very strong, but like i said before if youre looking forward to making an altar "but an altar can be anything that you can kneel before and place your magickal items upon" it can be a small childrens play table if you want as long as you can kneel before and place your magickal items upon. Wink
-nicky lubu
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Urian665 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:11 pm

i'm probably posting nothing new but my personal experience is pretty applicable because i worked through the book way back in the day, and because i was A) living with my parents B) still in school and C) broke, i had to improvise everything. my wand was a cross pen my uncle bought me, the knife was just a cheap flea market knife i got for 2 bucks, etc.

whatever you can make from anything you can find will be good enough as long as you put your heart/soul/energy into it. if you can't make anything use some paper and a pen... alternatively, you can use no tools and pure visualization.

this is one of those times where believing is seeing for lack of a better term.
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Doin' DMK

Post  pietbliksem on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:13 pm

Actually how you do it is important.DMK's method is sufficiently different from GD to have built up its own sub-current within the Wesoteric Tradition.If this is what you want to do,I suggest you stick to the patter-he gives a lot of leeway!What is important is that the way he constructed his course,each exercise develops you in ways not immediately apparent,and the results are cumulative.This is a mistake commonly made by neophytes outside lodges.Working the western tradition empty handed is of course possible;but for goodness sake,why!It's more difficult and robs the system of it's mythical splendor.In short;it's a particularly western(or Yang) path.The east offers beautiful empty handed courses, eg Qi-Gong etc.Think of DMK as the ultimate (in my opinion-and I'm biased!) modern western outer court.Work through it;then decide where to go.
May the rays of Lord Apollo bless you all, and the beams of Lady Luna caress you on your way!
With Fraternal Love
pietbliksem.


Last edited by pietbliksem on Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar!)

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  MercvrivsDvplex on Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:37 pm

I think that all emphasis put on proper ritual conduction and usage of magical objects comes from the time when magic was the essential part of the social life and magicians conducted rituals for the benefit of an entire community. All of who’s sitting where and the proper color of the fifth ring on the magical object falls into an exoteric part of the ritual practice and actually is intended for those not initiated into esoteric meaning of the ritual itself. “Magical” objects and ritual practice are there just to firmly ground the intended magical operation by allocating sensual and perceptive resources of uninitiated ones participating in ritual and thus enhancing the possibility of desirable outcome.

After thoroughly studying all of the previously mentioned systems, I bet you’d get even better results of your magical operations if you designed your own “magical” objects, ritual practice, and a logical explanation(theory) for why it works. That way your intuition and spiritual/material aspirations would get grounded in the most familiar and natural way that resonates with your personal frequency. Just like John Dee did. He created his own system that made it possible for him to utilize his own intuition in the best possible way to attain useful results through angelic hierarchy theory, ritual calls and element tablets.

Real magic comes from believing into intended and possible outcome of the spiritual or material aspiration a seeker urges. You need to believe to see and not the other way around.


Hope to have brought a useful perspective into discussion. Cheers!
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Nicky Lubu on Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:43 am

well technically the magic is in the sigils and the hebrew names of the archangels they just have to be inscribed on a weapon that is similar to the one mentioned that represents them but also has to be painted the colors that are intended which is why i used spray paint and tape for the edging of spray painting ive also picked up the skill of spray painting as well not to mention detail painting. so in conclusion the magic is in the names of the archangels you're invoking and their colors and the weapon that represents them. you can use your hands but it goes either way you can either follow directions or learn from your mistakes. also if youre going to use spray paint be sure to gloss it so you do not smeere or ruin the paint.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  ArcaTuthus on Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:32 pm

As your inner temple develops the need for the outer temple diminishes. Strict recipes for creation and consecration of magical implements are used to train the will and impart the archetypal symbolic nature of the elements onto the subconscious to bring aspects of the self that are hidden into the light of waking consciousness. This isn't to say that these things are not necessary, but that the actual implements themselves are not the important thing. What these things represent is what will lend you a greater understanding of the true nature of being. Truth not unlike space and time is a relative thing.

On of my favorite quotes "It's all in your mind, you just have no idea how big your mind really is."

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Whitewolf on Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:29 am

Hi everyone
When I saw mention of "Modern Magic...", Donald Kraigs wonderful book I just had to respond. First off, I can appreciate the questions revolving around the need for material weapons, accessories, etc. Personally, when I first started following Kraig's book about 10 years ago I used all of the material weapons and accessories I was able to obtain. I think MercvrivsDvplex's, explanation of intentional grounding and purpose is important. However, I also agree with what Amanadachen,ArcaTuthus, etc. Say " As your inner temple develops the need for the outer temple diminishes".
Before any ritual is performed a complete knowledge of purpose and possibile outcomes is very important (for that reason I find Israel Regarde's psychoanalytical explanations to be valuable guides). I think when an individual's understanding (of themselves) of the ritual reaches high levels of understanding, the imagination can can be used in place of actual material instruments. In fact, I find I am able to perfrom rituals quite edequately during meditation because my imagination and understanding of purpose provides enough impetus on the energetic level of consciousness. After all, the only true reality is consciousness (as Kabala, for example teaches).
One other thing I would like to mention. Regardless of the number of other books I read, places I go and rituals I perform I always love going back to "Modern Magic" (I always have it on my computer and in fact I have recently been refeshing my memory with some of Kraig's descriptions *(and intentions) of the BRH, SIRP, etc. The book is straightforward, easily understood and written by a person who is obviously more concened with sharing valuable knowledge rather than showing off. Simply, I enjoy this book because it is refresfingly unpretentious and easy to read.
You don't need an alter to acheive your magical works but you do need a thourough understanding of what you are doing AND an ethical, honest intention of purpose. What you send out does indeed return threefold.

Thanks for the wonderful opportunity to share thoughts with like-minded people.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  cratos on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:53 pm

I've been many days without access this forum, and had not seen so many interesting comments.
Thank you to everyone who contributed with their comments, certainly all helped me one way or another!

I was happy to see that WhiteWolf uses Modern Magic to 10 years and still feels good, finally, I think I'm in a good way! with my practices alone, since I'm not a big fan of Lodges and no one ordered me to do this or that only to impose authority over me! I think "magick people" should be free minded people and not slaves of some inflated ego! (No offense, some people like it)

This is much more important, share experiences with people that seeks what you seek!

Thank you all again, the torrents and forums has helped me a lot in my walk.

A few years ago, I possessed a slave mind to a ridiculous ideology and run by enslaved and dishonest men's!

DMK has released a new version of Modern Magic this month! It seems to me that even has a bit of chaos magic, hope someone can share with us soon, so stay updated!

Love, Life and Light (a good trinity)

"You belong to that which exercises its authority over you".
Ibn Arabi

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Modern Magic, optimism and ego

Post  Whitewolf on Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:35 am

Whitewolf, Tuesday, September 28, 2010

Cratos, you have a great attitude. You're right about the need to disengage from the slave-like connection to other people's egos. Of course, this emphasizes the need to discipline ourselves and not be slaves to our own egos (and the sometimes less than honorable desires submerged therein).
Personally, I find psycho-physical disciplines such Kundalini Yoga, various forms of martial arts and simple sitting meditation some of the most powerful ways to learn to "know ourselves" to increase freedom from ego.
We are the microcosms of the macrocosm; we contain the universe within ourselves...therefore we truly have to begin within ourselves if we want to change what we see outside ourselves what is undesirable. This is true magic.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  mindaround on Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:53 am

Wonderful beginning book (meaning worth years of work). I have worked through the whole thing and still keep it around. It is a very lucid and straight-forward presentation without a lot of fluff.
I do agree with the statement that 'as your inner temple grows the need for an outer temple diminishes'. BUT:

These days people are way too quick to say, 'you don't need this' or 'you can disregard that'....maybe they can, but can (or should) you? You'll never know until you try (and to be honest those that are quick to dismiss probably never tried anyway)

Going to the effort of building weapons and assembling a temple are invaluable exercises that have the following benefits:

1) It requires work, effort and planning on your part.
2) It externalizes inner symbols and builds personal energy
3) It trains you to regard objects made by your own hands as sacred and to protect and cherish them.
4) It teaches you to divide your 'ritual' self from your 'mundane' self.
5) The building of implements and creation of sacred space activates these symbols more strongly than any 'mental' exercise or education could do. It is much easier and enhances vividness when you have actually built and held magickal weapons with your hands when you go to recreate and employ them in the inner worlds.
6) It puts the 'as if' principle to work in the sense that instead of just playing dress up (or in the act thereof) you are assuming an archetypal identity in contrast to your regular self.
7) Drawing the materials together to construct magickal objects can be an exercise in manifestation and alignment of synchronicity.
8 ) It moves your practice out of the realm of the theoretical and into the realm of practice.

Temple implements can be simple such as fold-up tv tables for an altar. Cloth from a fabric store. Stuff from the arts and crafts section at Wal-Mart.. it is the work that you do with them that empowers and consecrates them.

Be wary when someone flippantly says you can disregard this or that. Answer for yourself why these things exist....what value they have to the ritual...what you could gain from the experience... They may be right or they may not...you'll never really know for yourself for sure until you have some experience.

If you actually go through the effort and begin the work you will be light years ahead of most who just read a few things and dabble around.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Nicky Lubu on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:48 pm

"mindaround" im going to have to agree with you.

"whitewolf" have you read alot of israel regardies stuff? because i was wondering which book would be best to start off with, i was thinking of starting with "the complete golden dawn system of magic" i hear its a great book.
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Whitewolf on Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:51 am

Hi!
Nicky Lubu,
I haven't read a lot of Regardie (but that is changing since I downloaded "Student of the Occult Mega-Torrent" from digimob). When I first came across Israel Regardie I was heavily immersed in Kundalini Yoga so I started with Regardie's "The Middle Pillar" because I (mistakenly - although it depends on how you look at it) thought there would be a lot of correspondences between the kabalistic Tree of Life and the Chakra systems. The "Middle Pillar" was an excellent beginner book for Ceremonial Magicians from a psychological perspective and for instruction on the basic rituals (at the same time I had started studying and practicing Kraig's "Modern Magic"...").
One of the biggest reasons I like Regardie is because of his tendency to explain things from a psychoanalytical perspective.
Soon after I started reading this book I picked up "A Garden of Pomegranates" and "The Complete Golden Dawn". "A Garden of Pomegranates" is also an excellent book for beginners but Personally, I only used "The Complete Golden Dawn" for reference. I much preferred "Modern Magic:..". The Golden Dawn book is geared more towards group oriented rituals while I am more of a solitary practitioner (Being primarily a mystic and a solitary that's why I remained a member of two wiccan circles for only a short length of time). However, the other two of Regardie's books I loved and highly recommend. (Over the years I have made many trips to the used book store, trading books I have read for new ones. Ha, ha, but I always kept those two books of Regardie's and Donald Kraig's Modern Magic.)

As I just said, I am much more of a mystic than I am a magician. Although I practice ceremonial rituals virtually every day and evening, I use this practice primarily for protection, to cleanse my aura and help free myself from the material world (I'm thinking of the image on #15 in the Rider-Waite deck). I guess that’s why I was enrolled in a Theological school for a short time…before I realized that was the last thing I wanted to do.). My purpose is to be in the world but not of it.

Thinking along these lines, that why I agree with you, "mindaround" when you emphasis how important material implements and weapons are for practitioners. For most reasons it would all become meaningless for most people without that material emphasis. However, from a personal perspective and purpose, I have learned that when I reach a certain point in practice I want to be able to free myself from its materialistic aspects (AFTER I have learned and integrated them thoroughly, developing an effective mid-body and spirit relationship).
Cheers, Whitewolf
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  amandachen on Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:43 am

This is a more user-friendly book than Regardie's Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic because it has more commentary. Yeah, I have both books on my shelf.

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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  Whitewolf on Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:12 am

Hello, amadachen

I think that was in the "Student of the Occult Mega-Torrent" I downloaded recently. Even if it wasn't I think I have the book you mention. I'll check it out. Thanks!

Whitewolf
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Happy to see that topic and digimob !

Post  KOUPKOUP on Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:20 pm

Hi Guys !

I am a big fan of occult and magic my hole life but i had a very bad experience 12 years ago! since, i just read read books thinking its a dangerous field but now that i saw that topic i really wanna start again !

You who already tried the modern magic can anyone one suggest me a book who he already tried and there is not danger to use it ?
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Re: Modern Magick - DMK - Help

Post  amandachen on Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:30 am

KOUPKOUP wrote:Hi Guys !
You who already tried the modern magic can anyone one suggest me a book who he already tried and there is not danger to use it ?
Try the Harry Potter books.
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