Initiation rites and Knights Templar

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Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  victortedesco on Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:23 pm

Hello dear fellow members of this Forum. I would like to introduce myself; My name is Victor Ribeiro Tedesco and I live in Salvador, Bahia, Brazil. I have great interest in knowing more about the Knights Templar, this interest is exactly why I've come to know initiatory fraternities such as Freemasonry and Rosicrucian. But I know I can learn even more and this forum can help me a lot as a source of research and knowledge. I would like to know more about Masonic rites related to the Knights Templar, as the Scottish Rite. Thank you very much. Very Happy

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hello victor

Post  Nicky Lubu on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:48 am

this is a very tuff subject to attempt on my approach but i'll give it a shot here, im pretty sure that the knights templar is now considered freemasonry, i believe they carried the secrets from the vatican and were a dark brotherhood of occultists who worked as assassins for the vatican, but as in belief that i have studied no matter how dark it sounds there's always a light to the belief system. someone else on here recently told me that masonic fraternities just teach the catechism of each religious belief, inside the brotherhood many members have formed outside systems/guilds/fraternities/brotherhoods pertaining to the curriculum of magic(k). I think history may show that, when the knights templar existed, they studied the magic(k) as well as the religious catechisms. I'm sure if you become a freemason and you ask a brother they can help you with this understanding as well as joining the illuminati if you are interested, at least thats what im told in many forums.
hopefully this was a little helpful to you.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  amandachen on Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:42 pm

Nicky Lubu wrote:this is a very tuff subject to attempt on my approach but i'll give it a shot here, im pretty sure that the knights templar is now considered freemasonry, i believe they carried the secrets from the vatican and were a dark brotherhood of occultists who worked as assassins for the...
*stops reading*
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  Nicky Lubu on Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:16 pm

well amanda, you can thank the history channel for that part lol
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  worlock93 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:31 am

Wow, just wow.

Nicky Lubu wrote:this is a very tuff subject to attempt on my approach but i'll give it a shot here, im pretty sure that the knights templar is now considered freemasonry, i believe they carried the secrets from the vatican and were a dark brotherhood of occultists who worked as assassins for the vatican, but as in belief that i have studied no matter how dark it sounds there's always a light to the belief system. .

The Knights Templar were not assassins, they were founded to give protection and aid to those traveling on pilgrimages to the Holy Land, due to pilgrims being commonly robbed and murdered on their journeys. Besides keeping them alive, to help offset the chances of getting robbed, the Knights Templar set up a form of early banking where pilgrims could deposit their money into templar holdings in Paris, or whever, and then get their money back from templars in the holy land (for a small fee of course). Over time the templars acquired large amounts of wealth that they loaned out to others when necessary, giving them great influence. The Templars ceased to exist in the early part of the 1300's after King Phillipe IV of France (who owed the Templars a bunch of money they had extended him in credit) had their leadership rounded up, tortured and burnt at the stake. The church, through the pushing of King Philip (the papal seat was in France at this time) eventually ordered the arrest of all other Templars. All these stories about the Templar secret rites and rituals are based on confession elicited under torture. Once the torture stopped the templars recanted.

someone else on here recently told me that masonic fraternities just teach the catechism of each religious belief, inside the brotherhood many members have formed outside systems/guilds/fraternities/brotherhoods pertaining to the curriculum of magic(k)

I'm assuming you're referring to my reply to you on another thread. Freemasonry doesn't (nor did I say that it did) teach the catechism of each religious belief, rather I said each degree has a catechism. A catechism is simply a series of questions that have determined answers. Look up masonic rituals online, you'll find most have a section that's comprised of a series of questions and answers. In theory, rituals were rarely (or at best incompletely) printed so members memorized the catechism as it contains all the information necessary to reconstruct the degree if necessary. Some masonic rituals only exist in catechism form today.

Freemasonry, as we know it today, didn't even exist until well after the Templars. Freemasonry has never claimed any direct connection to the Knights Templar. As a point of fact there is ZERO reference to the Knights to be found in the earliest documents related to Freemasonry. All this templar conjecture happened well after the fact by folks like Baron von Hund who created the "Rite of Strict Observance." The idea that the Templars became Freemasonry was a popular idea in his time (late 18th century) and a few appendant degrees showed up that had templar influence. Of course, none of those rituals seem to predate this time and it should be pointed out that there are appendant degree rituals that claim to go back to Moses, Noah, Zerubabel and even Atlantis. Just cause they say it, doesn't make it so.


I think history may show that, when the knights templar existed, they studied the magic(k) as well as the religious catechisms.
Actually, history has already shown that the Knights Templar were devout catholics who would probably stab you to death for even suggesting the idea of devilry to them. At some point this sillyness about the Knights Templar just needs to end. I know knight, Lomas, Baigent, Leigh and a bunch of other authors spin a nice yarn but they're evidence is non existent. Even the catholic church has admitted they were in error for their part in the persecution of the Knights Templar.

I'm sure if you become a freemason and you ask a brother they can help you with this understanding as well as joining the illuminati if you are interested, at least thats what im told in many forums.
hopefully this was a little helpful to you.

Now we're bringing the Illuminati into this?!?! If you asked a Freemason how to join the illuminati they would either a) have no clue what you were talking about, or b) laugh hysterically. The Illuminati came into existence over 230 years ago and only managed to last less than ten years. Conspiracy theorists always have lots of entertaining ideas, yet they never manage to have anything to back it up.

Conversationally, the Illuminati had three primary goals 1) decrease church domination over education 2) decrease oppression by rulers and monarch 3) educate women and treat them equal to men. Yeah, scary! From my perspective in the story of history, the Illuminati are actually the good guys. It was religious zealots and monarchists reeling from the American and French revolutions who chose the Illuminati (and by extension Freemasonry, Jacobism, reading circles and anything else they could think of) as a literary target for all the changes going on in the world. Some people hate change and sometimes they fabricate idiotic stories to deal with change.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  amandachen on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:55 pm

Yeah, the truth doesn't make a good comic book story.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  Nicky Lubu on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:54 pm

worlock thanks for giving me an even deeper understanding i actually told you things i was told through other forums some conspiracy books and of course the history channel, any ways im sorry for misinterpreting what you have told me the last time, but, thank you this has cleared up alot more for me lol i brought in the illuminati because i wanted to see if someone would say something and maybe throw a little input in there, i always had an interest in world domination lol damn conspiracy theories.
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Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  victortedesco on Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:13 am

Hi guys! Thanks for the replies! I guess someone is mixing up the plot of the game "ASSASSIN CREED" with real historical facts. Razz

I have read books, essays and articles about the knights templar legacies; so far there is nothing clear about the final destiny of the knights who survived the historical persecution. Without their real whereabouts, it's very hard to know what substantially remained from the Order values and knowledge. I have some clues pointing out to the freemasonry, more specificly certain rites from Ireland and Scotland (highly probable) but also to the Rosicrucian Order.

This is all I have by now, but I am still researching for more information.

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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  wolfpak692@msn.com on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:30 am

The Knights Templars started out as what we would call our military Special Forces. The men who made up this group were once the best of the best. They were first into battle and last out if a retreat was called. I will post more info as I come across it.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  Benjamin Stein on Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:27 am

Senhor Tedesco,

My brother Robert lived in Salvador for a couple of years, and speaks fondly of the town and Bahia.

While there are a number of theories about Templarism and its relationship to Freemasonry the bottom line appears to be that no one knows for certain whether there is a definite link. I have had the opportunity to speak with several noted Masonic writers on the subject and would like to make a couple of observations.

In my opinion the most convincing argument for a link is presented in Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry by John J. Robinson. Adam Kendall (Archivist for the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, California; Curator of the Henry Coil Museum) has informed me that Robinson was raised as a Mason after that book was released and subsequently changed his mind, believing that there was no transmutation of the Templar Order into speculative Freemasonry via medieval stone masons guilds.

In the against column there is a really wonderful book Cracking the Freemasons Code: The Truth about Solomon's Key and the Brotherhood by Robert L. D. Cooper (Archivist for the Grand Lodge of Scotland; Curator of the Scottish Masonic Museum). I personally find his thesis about the origins of Freemasonry to be the most plausible. I was fortunate enough to meet Brother Cooper at a Festive Board dinner and was able to speak at length afterwards. He is an engaging, funny and brilliant person. He may also be contacted through his webpage (http://www.robertldcooper.com/?page_id=5).

Hope that is of some help.
Ben
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Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  victortedesco on Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:53 pm

Mister Stein,

I hope your brother enjoyed Bahia during his time here. Thank you very much for your help, I guess your post can lead me to more valuable information. I didn't know those books referred at your post, so far my sources are in Portuguese language, but I will look for them.

In fact there was a transmutation of some Templars into Masons, which doesn’t mean that all the Templars became Masons, or making the Freemasonry heirs of the Templar knowledge.

But let me explain some points:

The Templars themselves were not just knights, but there were different classes within the Order, some of them even housed up pagans as warriors. Definitely the most important classes were dominated by descendants of noble Christians of European origin, while they were mere secretaries of finance and treasure of the rich order in Europe, or great knights in the Holy Land.

It turns out that all the temples, churches and buildings of the Templar Order were built by members of the own order. The Masons were builders of the order (which is within the Masonic history are referred to as operative masons), men who had advanced knowledge of engineering supplied by the Templars.

During the persecution of the French king, the most targeted were members of the Knights and the officers related to the wealth of the Templar order, the other classes were ignored. Thanks to this, the Masons were free to move around Europe and in the holy land without arousing suspicion, as a way of protection, many templars from upper classes were absorbed by the Masons to save their own lives. The majority of the late admitted Masons who didn't have French roots took refuge in Scotland, being welcomed by the future King Robert I (Robert the Bruce).

This is the link between Scotland, the Templars and Freemasonry, but no one has managed to reveal a smoking gun that is unfolding this mystery. On the other hand, this is exactly what the Templars wanted: That no one ever knew it.

Victor

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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  amandachen on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:56 am

Benjamin and worlock are the only two sane voices in what's become a fairytale thread.
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"Initiation rites and Knights Templar"

Post  victortedesco on Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:35 pm

Hello dear Amanda! flower

How's it going? Sorry to disappoint you guys if the real story is not like what you expect from a Hollywood movie. Dear Amanda, where you looking for the name of "Orlando Bloom" be quoted in my post? LoL, sorry for that. Hollywood= fairytale - Historians= the truth. I have outlined here only what I know through books and essays about the subject.

If you have nothing to add, simply don't post nothing. What do you think about it? However if you have facts that prove exactly the opposite of what was posted by me, please share this information with us. I will seriously thank you very much for this!

Victor

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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  worlock93 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:06 am

victortedesco wrote:

In fact there was a transmutation of some Templars into Masons, which doesn’t mean that all the Templars became Masons, or making the Freemasonry heirs of the Templar knowledge.

Only a "fact" if you ignore the (provable) fact that the Knights Templar had ceased to exist well before speculative freemasonry came in practice or stonemason guilds were initiating non Masonic members.

But let me explain some points:

The Templars themselves were not just knights, but there were different classes within the Order, some of them even housed up pagans as warriors. Definitely the most important classes were dominated by descendants of noble Christians of European origin, while they were mere secretaries of finance and treasure of the rich order in Europe, or great knights in the Holy Land.


And what pagans in the land of Christendom did the Templars allow into their order, pray tell? As far as ranks go your argument is fairly inaccurate. The Templars had three ranks: Knights (knighthood requires aristocratic descent in ALL orders), Sargent (commoner), Chaplain (ordained priest). These ranks were common to all orders of Knighthood at the time, including Malta, Hospitalers, etc. Rank had little bearing on your job. Knights worked as bankers and chaplains fought on the front line, while all members took a vow of poverty upon entering the order.


It turns out that all the temples, churches and buildings of the Templar Order were built by members of the own order. The Masons were builders of the order (which is within the Masonic history are referred to as operative masons), men who had advanced knowledge of engineering supplied by the Templars.

Yeah....anyhow, from: "The Knights Templar" by Helen Nicholson (a book based on historical evidence, rather than supposition).

"From the 1250s the Templars, Hospitallers and Teutonic knights were given or sold many castles by the secular nobility of the crusader states who could no longer afford to maintain and garrison them." pg. 59.

"for the most part (their churches) were built in the local style, even when the Order built from scratch. Clearly these Orders did not bring in their own architects and masons from outside when they wanted to build, but hired local workers on the spot." pg. 158. (emphasis mine).

You should be aware that the pay records for several of these jobs are still in existence.

Your biggest flaw in reasoning lies in the fact that the Templars had no engineering knowledge. The vast majority of members were illiterate or barely literate in their native languages due to the fact that most had background in agriculture and herding with others coming from craftsmen backgrounds. Most aristocrats of the time could barely sign their own names (if that) and spent their time learning warfare. The only math the members knew was that necessary to run their banking practices, which was very little. It's not like they were offering 401(k)'s or calculating compounded interest.

During the persecution of the French king, the most targeted were members of the Knights and the officers related to the wealth of the Templar order, the other classes were ignored. Thanks to this, the Masons were free to move around Europe and in the holy land without arousing suspicion, as a way of protection, many templars from upper classes were absorbed by the Masons to save their own lives. The majority of the late admitted Masons who didn't have French roots took refuge in Scotland, being welcomed by the future King Robert I (Robert the Bruce).

Actually, any Templar found was arrested in the initial roundup. The officers were executed, the pope disbanded them and the remaining members joined the priesthood, joined other orders of knighthood or others lived out their days on a pension. Outside of France most trials ended in acquittal. Yes it's widely suggested that many Templars fled to Scotland due to the pope excommunicating the entire region, of course there are also legends and theories that they fled to the swiss alps, the middle east, and some book or another claims they discovered America why not jump on those bandwagons.


This is the link between Scotland, the Templars and Freemasonry, but no one has managed to reveal a smoking gun that is unfolding this mystery. On the other hand, this is exactly what the Templars wanted: That no one ever knew it.

What link, when did you show a link? Just making statements in support of your opinion is not evidence ( I believe that would be the complete opposite of evidence). It still does not change the fact that even a preliminary analyses of the historical evidence would show you that theories tying Freemasonry to the Templars were created in France in the 18th century. Speculative freemasonry was created in the 16-17th century and there is absolutely no evidence of Templars existing beyond the early 14th century. There are plenty of connections between Freemasonry and Scotland. Hence why naming something Scottish or Ecossais in Freemasonry is done to add an air of validity to it. The Royal Order of Scotland, for example, is neither Royal nor Scottish in origin. That doesn't mean you can't just shoehorn the templars into freemasonry/scottish history.
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** Initiation rites and Knights Templar **

Post  victortedesco on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:26 pm

Hello worlock93. How are you doing? Very Happy

Sorry I was away for a couple of days and I couldn't check my e-mails for a while. Thank you very much for your contribution by informing the readers and members on this topic. Although, particularly, "almost" everything that was wrote by you I already knew.

I would love to explain my points, but I do not want to be wordy nor make this thread too long. It wouldn't be healthy make this into a pointless discussion. Chances are that you did not understand what I wrote.

Obviously the current Freemasonry did not exist at the time of the Crusades. I meant the class of workers who were so-called, not the today Freemasonry. The masons mentioned by me already existed in middle age and were contemporaries at the time of the Crusades. Yes, there were no initiation rites to become a bricklayer.

Centuries before, the Romans had the habit of recruiting pagan mercenary soldiers to fight on their side. The Templars recruited low soldiers much like this (none of them were knights). In the Christian point of view of these religious orders, pagans were all of the peoples whom did not profess the Christian faith. None pagan had relevant position within the order; they were simple employees, servants. There were other classes besides those mentioned by you within the Templar order, or do you believe that the person in charge of the finance was an illiterate knight? To manage the wealth of the order, it was needed a treasurer for example. But all of them were religious, and even celebrated mass in their churches.

The Templars had expertise in engineering, naval engineering, military engineering and so on. The Templar architecture was notable for the round churches for example (visit Scotland and you will see some intact ones). In addition to the castles both in Europe as in the Middle East, the order built other castles and fortresses. Do you think the order would hire Muslims to build their fortresses? No, they had their own masons. Yes I give credit to the work surveyed by me, my intention at this forum is not to give you history lessons or even write a doctoral thesis. My texts are informal.

The Templar order was rich; of course it was not born rich, but became so over the years. No Templar was rich as they had to take a vow of poverty, but many were of noble origin. For being a powerful and rich entity it was attacked by the French king. What do you mean by few banking practices? The Templars practically invented an entire banking system involving deposits of huge sums just counting on their fingers? Yes, the Templar did not pay taxes by decree of papal bulls.

Each and every last Templars were condemned by the church, I never knew that "other" members of the order later joined "the priesthood", they already had a priestly life before. Sorry, but no other Christian chivalry order at that time sympathized with the Templar drama or even admitted remaining members. About your cited theories of Templars in Switzerland or discovering America, I've never heard of, but it shows your playful side on this issue.

Well, the relations between Scotland, Templars and The Freemasonry cited by me, are the sources of assumptions so far studied to be clarified once and for all. I want to make clear to all of the forum members that anything written by me wasn't mere figment of my imagination (I wish I had a fertile one), but I draw on the work of historians, and you, Mr Worlock, say that what I reported is mere supposition, would be to ignore the studies of those scholars.

You contradict yourself too much in your ideas, organize them better and re-post here. I would love to know your sources and investigate them myself.
Want some credits? Here are some works read by me recently, take a look because they are exciting books on the subject and have fun! study

Olsen, Oddvar. "The Templar Papers - Ancient Mysteries, Secret Societies, and the Holy Grail."

Wasserman, James. "An Illustrated History of the Knights Templar".

Stavish, Mark; Wasserman, James; Duquette, Lon Milo. "The Key to Solomon's Key: Is This the Lost Symbol of Masonry?".

Picknett, Lynn; Prince, Clive. "The Templar Revelation".

Haag, Michael. "The Templars: History and Myth".

Read, Piers Paul. "The Templars".

Luca, Maria Margherita de. "História e Lenda dos Templários".

Dafoe, Stephen. "The Compasses and the Cross".

Lomas, Robert. "Turning the Templar Key: The Secret Legacy of the Knights Templar and the Origins of Freemasonry".

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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  amandachen on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:30 pm

Sorry I was away for a couple of days and I couldn't check my e-mails for a while. Thank you very much for your contribution by informing the readers and members on this topic. Although, particularly, "almost" everything that was wrote by you I already knew.

I would love to explain my points, but I do not want to be wordy nor make this thread too long. It wouldn't be healthy make this into a pointless discussion. Chances are that you did not understand what I wrote.
Fucking LOL.

Here's a hint: post anything more and you'll just look even more of a Harry Potter.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  worlock93 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:55 am

victortedesco wrote:Hello worlock93. How are you doing? Very Happy

Sorry I was away for a couple of days and I couldn't check my e-mails for a while. Thank you very much for your contribution by informing the readers and members on this topic. Although, particularly, "almost" everything that was wrote by you I already knew.
So then you're willingly choosing to ignore historical reality then?

Obviously the current Freemasonry did not exist at the time of the Crusades. I meant the class of workers who were so-called, not the today Freemasonry. The masons mentioned by me already existed in middle age and were contemporaries at the time of the Crusades. Yes, there were no initiation rites to become a bricklayer.
That's an even funnier thought. So hundreds, possibly thousands, of templars disappeared into the stonemason guilds and no one had a problem with that? One illegal alien takes a job away from a "hardworking American" and it ends up on the front of the New York Times, yet the medieval stonemasons were so content that no one minded all this new competition for jobs enough to stand up and say "this is bullshit!" I guess medieval stonemasons didn't like food as much as everyone else.

Centuries before, the Romans had the habit of recruiting pagan mercenary soldiers to fight on their side.
Yes, wonderful! The fact that Romans themselves were Pagan and accepted the existence of gods of other cultures was probably helpful. Has absolutely nothing to do with Templars though.

The Templars recruited low soldiers much like this (none of them were knights). In the Christian point of view of these religious orders, pagans were all of the peoples whom did not profess the Christian faith. None pagan had relevant position within the order; they were simple employees, servants.
So you seem to believe and yet lack any evidence. The fact that being catholic was tantamount to being a templar disagrees with you (see their founding documents and related Papal Bull's). The Church would have disbanded the order long before if it had non Catholics in it's rank. Sorry, but this idea is even more ridiculous when put into context of what the fundamental purpose of the Crusades actually was.

There were other classes besides those mentioned by you within the Templar order, or do you believe that the person in charge of the finance was an illiterate knight? To manage the wealth of the order, it was needed a treasurer for example. But all of them were religious, and even celebrated mass in their churches.
A) you seem to be confusing "class" with "job." Simply because one held the rank of cleric does not mean they could not be a financier.

B) I said the vast majority of Templars were illiterate not all. Since you're so well versed in Templar history I would expect that you would be aware of this WELL established and repeated fact. Of course, it doesn't really fit with your theory......

The Templars had expertise in engineering, naval engineering, military engineering and so on.
Not really, their ships were given to them just like most of their strongholds. Military engineering, also not necessary. Kings built and used war machines and the like, the Templars fought on the frontline.

The Templar architecture was notable for the round churches for example (visit Scotland and you will see some intact ones). In addition to the castles both in Europe as in the Middle East, the order built other castles and fortresses. Do you think the order would hire Muslims to build their fortresses? No, they had their own masons. Yes I give credit to the work surveyed by me, my intention at this forum is not to give you history lessons or even write a doctoral thesis. My texts are informal.
Yes, and many people who were not Templars built round churches and regardless of their shape, it doesn't mean Templars themselves built them. All McDonald's look alike, but they're still built with local contractors. As far as the middle east goes, sorry but uh do you even know what was going on during the crusades? for most of the 1100's Jerusalem, for example, was almost entirely Christian. Do you honestly not realize just how many non-Muslims there were in the middle east during the crusades?

(Snip)For being a powerful and rich entity it was attacked by the French king.
No, it was attacked because Philip was in debt up to ass (which included money he owed the Templars) and he figured this was a way for him to score a big payout (bad news) and get out from their debt. He didn't simply attack them because they were rich and powerful.[/quote]

What do you mean by few banking practices?
They loaned money with simple interest,wrote and cashed checks, collected taxes for the church. See, simple. While their banking practices were a particularly interesting feat for their time, there's no need to blow them out of proportion. They weren't Wells Fargo or Banco Central Do Brasil.

The Templars practically invented an entire banking system involving deposits of huge sums just counting on their fingers? Yes, the Templar did not pay taxes by decree of papal bulls.
I'm inclined to think they used paper to track their finances as anyone would. Of course this still doesn't go against the fact that their banking practices required only simple math and the most basic of literacy.

Each and every last Templars were condemned by the church, I never knew that "other" members of the order later joined "the priesthood", they already had a priestly life before.
A) "priestly" does not mean they were priests, not all members were clerical (a fairly small minority was actually).

B) One cannot just leave one holy order and walk right into another, they must be accepted by that order as a new member. Some clerics and non clerics of the Templars joined other monastic orders following the fall of the Templars.

Sorry, but no other Christian chivalry order at that time sympathized with the Templar drama or even admitted remaining members.
Uhh, sorry but you're wrong. The Hospitaller's (who also got the Templar property) and Order of the Holy Sepulchre both took in Templars. Furthermore, in Portugal the Templars simply reformed as the Order of Christ and in Spain they became the Order of Montesa.

Well, the relations between Scotland, Templars and The Freemasonry cited by me, are the sources of assumptions so far studied to be clarified once and for all. I want to make clear to all of the forum members that anything written by me wasn't mere figment of my imagination (I wish I had a fertile one), but I draw on the work of historians, and you, Mr Worlock, say that what I reported is mere supposition, would be to ignore the studies of those scholars.
No, sadly it's actually a figment from the imaginations of others that you've chosen to repeat here.

You contradict yourself too much in your ideas, organize them better and re-post here. I would love to know your sources and investigate them myself.

Where exactly did I contradict myself?

Want some credits? Here are some works read by me recently, take a look because they are exciting books on the subject and have fun! study

This is my favorite part of your post.

Wasserman, James. "An Illustrated History of the Knights Templar".

Stavish, Mark; Wasserman, James; Duquette, Lon Milo. "The Key to Solomon's Key: Is This the Lost Symbol of Masonry?".

Two books written by occultists using only the loosest standards of history and relying entirely on the Templar myths to support arguments.

Olsen, Oddvar. "The Templar Papers - Ancient Mysteries, Secret Societies, and the Holy Grail."

Picknett, Lynn; Prince, Clive. "The Templar Revelation".

Lomas, Robert. "Turning the Templar Key: The Secret Legacy of the Knights Templar and the Origins of Freemasonry".

While all three of these books are highly entertaining, books written by pseudo-historians really have nothing to do with this conversation (well at least my side of it). They all repeat things as fact that have been long discredited and, like the two above it, rely on hearsay and myth to support arguments. You may as well throw Dan Brown in as a source.

Dafoe, Stephen. "The Compasses and the Cross".

By far your most curious inclusion. A book detailing the history of Masonic Templarism that shows outright there is no connection between the Templars and Freemasonry. Same is true of his earlier book "Nobly Born: An Illustrated History of the Knights Templar."

Haag, Michael. "The Templars: History and Myth".

Read, Piers Paul. "The Templars".
Now we're just getting weird here. Two books that go only on historical evidence and give no credence to Templar myths. Not a single thing I've said can't be found in these books (or the Nicholson book mentioned in my previous thread).

Luca, Maria Margherita de. "História e Lenda dos Templários".
Sorry, not my language.

You might want to try "The New Knighthood" by Malcolm Barber." "The Real History Behind the Templars" by Sharan Newman is a rather entertaining read as well. Of course, I'm afraid you may just find these book disappointing.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  Shara13 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:28 am

The Templars were involved in many aspects of Western mythology, especially in the last three centuries. The secret of the Order of the Knights Templar call has led to many feeling that legitimately can be connected to the organization and all areas of the hidden mysterious happenings and other events. Some of the most famous historical enigmas are thrown repeatedly into the mix are the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, which are all reported links to the Templars.


knights templars

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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  amandachen on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:53 pm

Shara13 wrote:The Templars were involved in many aspects of Western mythology, especially in the last three centuries.
Not sure what you're trying to say.
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Re: Initiation rites and Knights Templar

Post  AustinTransy on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:24 am

Hey Victor,
You might want to check out the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis, or the Order of Oriental Templars). They used use the lodge I used to attend (when I was more heavily into freemasonry) a couple times a month for what I am assuming were meetings, and ritual. I can't really say for sure what their relationship is to the Knights Templar, as I am not a member (and wikipedia is currently down Wink), but some of my masonic brothers were also part of the O.T.O. and spoke well of it.
Might be a fun fruity cult, might be boring, might be worth researching.

p.s. Looks like we have some Assassins Creed fans on the forum Smile

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